My name is Taylor Rasmussen. And my title is very long. It is the high acid beverage lab manager. I have been at Sensapure for one month; I'm brand new. I have a master's degree in nutrition and food science. For me, I'm always interested in what's different and new. In my career, I've formulated spring roll wrappers to hair growth for women's health. Two totally different things. I've also worked on a lot of sauce development.
I do a lot of outdoor things: mountain biking, tennis, rock climbing. Any chance I can get to spend time outdoors, I'm game. Russian is my second language. I'm not in very good practice, but… Здравствуйте, меня зовут Taylor Rasmussen.
Sensapure actually reached out to me, but I've looked at Sensapure in the past. What's great about it is they have a really wide variety of things that they work on, which I find really intriguing. So it's nice for me to come to work and not know what the other day has in store. I could be working on flavors, I could be working on beverages, I could be working on some strange blend of things to help a customer flavor some kind of system that they sent us. Sensapure has a really wide variety of capabilities, as well as services, which is unique. Our R&D team here are really good at knowing how to make something taste good. I get to participate in that.

The challenges that we face with high acid and beverage formulation are that it's high acid. People tend to not like things that are too acidic. So we have to figure out ways to either flavor it, compliment it, or to cover it up. We tend to spend a lot of time working on that aspect of things. Right? The flavor components. But then there's also the safety component where the product that we make has to reach a certain pH, an acidity level. It has to be heated to a certain temperature. When we add carbonation to it, that adds an additional flavor component that we have to consider. Marrying all those things together can be a challenge. But we're really good at it.

What techniques are available to avoid acid-based flavor degradation? There are several options. Believe it or not, carbonation can help. It tends to preserve. Heat is probably the biggest enemy of flavor degradation. It tends to speed it up, and it tends to destroy a lot of the top note flavor keys that we use heavily here. So if there are ways to not have to heat it, such as using additional acid, using natural preservatives, we would prefer to go down that route. But yeah, if we have to cook it, then you have to use a very gentle heating process to prevent the off notes from forming.

How do I adjust sweetener and flavor systems to hold up in acid environments and carbonated systems? Sweeteners are actually very stable. You could cook them. You can acidify them. You can add other preservatives and things to it that doesn't affect their intensity, which is great. It might mute some things if you use a really milky product. Right. Like something really creamy can cover up some sweeteners. Other than that, it's really stable. So that's kind of nice. Really, that's one of our main pillars that we like to use in developing something that tastes good. What ingredients are likely to break down in high pH, acidified, or carbonated systems? I would say that our top note keys, specifically the water-soluble ones—the oil-soluble are a little more stable—once they get melted and combined with other things, then they just aren't as robust. What typically happens is you have to add more flavor, or a different type of flavor, or an artificial flavor. Those are some ways to do it; I don't like to do it that way. I've found that if you just go up on the usage rate, then you can figure out how much is getting degraded and then replace. Some other options are you add flavors after the heating process, or at the very end of the heating process.

The role of buffers or acid modulators in products: it can have a detrimental effect, I guess. That could be one of the challenges of having to use products that need electrolytes. A lot of your electrolytes have citrates like sodium citrate or magnesium citrate or potassium citrate. All of those are buffers. They cause your pH to rise. And then you have to compensate by adding more acid. And when you add more acid, then the flavor profile becomes less desirable, right? Becomes more sour. You have to find that Goldilocks zone, balancing the amount of electrolytes with the amount of acid. Which is interesting. We've worked on projects where they wanted a really high salt content. That makes it difficult to acidify properly. Well, if you combine that with citric acid and carbonation, now you can get there, right? So the carbonation actually helps bring down your pH. And helps to also preserve your system. So it's all about hurdles right? So that plus this, plus maybe some anti-microbial preservatives, will get you there.

How do I avoid motion stability issues while formulating citrus flavors or high acid products? I do this by using things that are stable at various pH ranges. Personal favorite of mine is xanthan gum. It behaves the same at all the different pH ranges. So if something's going to fall out of solution, it's called precipitation. It typically is your protein, or something that's protein-like; aminos or something that's got a heavy molecular structure. And that's really tied to the pH of the solution. You can stabilize that by adding a xanthan gum or combining it with an additional gum like carrageenan or gum Arabic to help it stay in solution. And what's nice is it also doubles as a mouthfeel enhancer. And xanthan gums are really heat stable. So once you activate it, then it can function at different temperatures too. So there like several characteristics that can be helpful there. To prevent precipitation of proteins in high acid beverages can be tricky. Certainly a lot of bench work is needed to make sure that it can handle various adjustments and environments. We've done a lot of that work here so we have a really good foundation to start with. Having that foundation makes it possible for us get to the desired end goal quickly. Protein wants to precipitate out if it's reached its isoelectric point. You have to know what that is, and try to stay away from it. And usually the way that we do that is we purchase pre-acidified whey or proteins that can then go into solution easy. And so what's nice is that they are already at that isoelectric point. And so you can then flavor on top of it. You don't have to worry about getting too close, while still maintaining a safe and tasty product.

How does acidification change the flavor profile or its functionality? And how do we manage that for our customers? Pre-acidified proteins have an astringency, kind of a sour milk profile that's not very desirable. There's a process where they actually acidify the whey protein that makes it stable at different acid levels in the beverage itself. That way we can take that ingredient and add it to carbonated water or whatever. And it already brings the acid levels about where we need it. So then after that, it's just flavor adjustment. Maybe slightly more sweetener, slightly more acid or a different kind of acid to make you think of pears versus apples. And then the flavor components on top of that. What are carbonated proteins? Carbonated proteins, that's not real. The protein is in a carbonated system, if that makes sense. And there are a lot of patents and protections around that, that we have to negotiate when we formulate things. That's one of the challenges that we work with. Can you actually make a carbonated protein drink taste good? Yeah, it's very possible. Protein, especially acidified proteins that we work with, tend to have a flavor profile that's not ideal for making a beverage. And so you have to work really hard to cover it up with different flavors and things like that. We have several products right now in the queue that we've been working on that are tasting really good. Amazing what some flavor, bitter blockers, and some sweetener will do a beverage.

How are manufacturers adding flavor maskers and off note blockers and things like that without losing the brightness? When I formulate, I want to maintain the natural expectation of a product. If I'm going to drink a product that’s citrus, I want it to taste like an orange in the palm of my hand. The problem is, a lot of times you have other things in there that compete. For example, in a beverage with energy, caffeine is really bitter. And so here it Sensapure I've worked on recently a system where I'm blending salts and sweeteners top note maskers along with flavor to cover up that negative flavor experience. So when we eat something, we want to taste only good things. Right? Like, if it's bitter and I'm expecting sweet, then I'm disappointed. We can help round out that flavor experience.

Some of my go to acidifiers or acidulants are very typically used in the industry. Right: citric, malic…I don't use phosphoric very often. And then there's also lactic and fumaric. I've used all of those. So citric tends to be the most commonly used one because it's really tangy and really strong. Malic is slightly less intense and it has less of an effect on the pH compared to citric. So you would use that typically in combination with citric, or if you wanted a less intense sour delivery. I've found that a really nice combination is to blend citric, malic, and fumaric. Fumaric has a nice effect on the pH, where it lowers it quickly with not a lot and has less sour flavor intensity. The problem, though, is people don't like the word fumaric. Those three acids, along with lactic and phosphoric, are commonly found in fruits and other things that we drink or consume regularly. A lot of it's perception. Customers usually drive what they'll accept in a formula. If not, then I would like to use maybe a blend of citric or malic and maybe convince them that fumaric is acceptable.

Companies should keep in mind when formulating high, low or no acid, what products they want to target that's already in the market. If there's something that they like that they think they might want to just do an adjustment to or tweak, then that's nice for us to be able to have that as reference. To me, it just depends on who's your audience? Who are you formulating for? Like, if I'm formulating a high caffeine shot, right, like some kind of energy shot, well I'm not going to carbonate that, because it doesn't make sense. Almost no companies will do small containers. That needs to be still. So then that will have to be acidified and possibly heated. The other things, right, like carbonation; you want to consider what needs to go in there. What claims are we trying to make? What's our target audience? No acid—that one's not ideal. I would try and steer people away from that. Right now, I'm working with a customer who wants to do a protein-flavored water. That gets me nervous, because then I need to cook it and preserve it. And the protein that's going to be cooked will now have off notes that I can't cover up. Oh, and also they don't want too much sweetener or a sweetener that's expensive. It just makes it hard to make it taste good when you have really strict limitations on what can be in there.

All beverages, when you're formulating them, you have to formulate to a pH requirement. That's something you consider right away. There are two. There's 4.1 is the typical one that we look at. But then there's also 4.6 plus other hurdles. 4.1 plus other hurdles can be super safe. I like to hang out in that area. Once you've created a product, you kind of monitor its stability prior to passing along those formulas or those products to the customer. But usually it's quite stable. Things don't change that much if there aren't ingredients in there that will cause additional buffering. I've worked on products where a lot of buffering would occur, and so you would acidify higher, some more acid, and then you would wait overnight and check it to see if it came within the range that you wanted it to to be. That could be hard. So then you had to do a lot of iterations and it would just take longer in the development process. Knowing what's going to go in there really matters.

How does carbonation affect sensory mouthfeel and physical characteristics? Carbonation can actually enhance the intensity of what's being tasted. A lot of times in a still beverage, so a beverage without carbonation, something might not be very intense or not as enjoyable, but then when you add carbonation to it, it enhances that experience. Carbonation is actually helpful to improve the taste experience. Which isn't to say that we can't do both really well. It can be used as a way to get to a good product in the end quickly. How do we determine the ideal carbonation level? A lot of that is based on capability of a co-man. Benchtop carbonation is tricky. A lot of times when you formulate on the bench, it'll be slightly less carbonated versus what they can achieve in a manufacturing setting. The idea is to get as much carbonation as the vessel will accept without ruining the storage parameters and flavor components and things like that. There are different measurements that can be used, like, wall integrity. How much pressure can it withstand? You don't want to open your can have it spray all over the place. There's like dissolved oxygen, right? They call it D.O. Understanding where that needs to be, making sure it's really low. It will help with preservation.

How early in the process should people think about the tolerance of their packaging to what's being made, is from the very beginning. It should be a part of the initial development process. Typically, if it's going to be really acidic product, you worry about the wall of the container being degraded over time. If it's going to be a heated product, you worry about the tolerance of packaging, the wall itself or the design of the packaging, to be able to withstand heat. There are a lot of things to consider with packaging, right? Aesthetics. Will it work at a co-man that I'm going to go to? All of that's really important to consider right away.

When you are formulating, you have to always consider costs, and how do we do that? We do that by knowing what the customer is willing to spend or is able to spend in order to be profitable for them. Then we can kind of back into what's price we can use. Everything costs something. And so we have to be cognizant of all of that when we're putting together products for customers. There's three things that tend to happen when you're developing a product. People want it fast. People want it cheap. People want it good. Well, it's hard to deliver all three of those. If I do it fast good, then it's going to be expensive. Or if I do it cheap and quick, well, now it's not gonna be good. So there's essentially a triangle of needs there that you have to consider satisfying.

In developing products, I've found that it's important to consider how to mask things that aren’t desired. There are a combination of things that can work together to help create something that tastes balanced. That's typically acid, sweetness, and flavor. So top notes, not just flavor only. Maybe some savory notes. If you've ever had a chocolate chip cookie with no salt, it doesn't taste very good. There's just something that's necessary that you have to balance.

Some of the things that I've seen fail in beverage have typically been precipitation of actives, viscosity issues. I’ve tasted off notes in products that I've worked on that I was like, “Wow, I didn't realize that there interactions of some of the active ingredients with the botanicals that we'd never used before.” I've seen it all: things that got overcooked, things that were too close to that safety zone for pH. The biggest mistake the brands might make when developing beverages could be having unrealistic expectations of what can be done. Understanding how to use the characteristics that need to be in there to your benefit. Working with somebody who is skilled at creating formulas and knows how to navigate the formulas themselves to make it tastes really good and hopefully hit all of those nice to haves, can be helpful there.

Based on my personal opinion, the next wave of energy drinks will look like more natural energy. Energy from natural sources. More energy that sustains instead of spikes. The energy you take is either sugar-based or it's caffeine-based or a combination of those. And the problem with that is you have an intense spike and then a drop off. And so to overcome that you need to use different types of sugar sources or carbohydrate sources. So I see like people moving to more family friendly I guess options. There's a thing called cluster dextrin, for example, that's out in the industry. When combined with just cane sugar and fruit juice, it can really give you a lot of sustained energy. And the spike is smooth, right? There's not really a spike, it's just a round curve. That would be my direction that I would go. I feel like a lot of energy drinks are also getting into protein. Energy plus protein is going to be really popular. What's driving the carbonated beverage industry beyond energy drinks is, to me, a lot of natural type ingredients. Not natural flavors, per se, but things that people can look at the label and know everything that's gone into it. When I look for a beverage, I look for simple. Sparkling water, some kind of essence and maybe a sweetener. I think those are the best, cleanest beverages. And I think they're gaining a lot of popularity. I've seen quite a few of those out in the industry starting to really pick up speed. What's the one, with the skull on the front of it? I don't know if you've seen that. Yeah, death water? Something like that. Anyway, I love that direction. I think that's fantastic. I'm surprised, like, carbonated protein has a patent on it that a lot of people can't use. I imagine when that patent runs out, there will be a lot of beverages like milk-based, or dairy-based that are also carbonated. That could be a possible direction. Is it possible to carbonate milk? Yes. BYU locally actually has done the research on that. Industrially, there are a couple of companies that own the patents to being able to do that. So yes. There's framework around all patents, right, like it's very specific. We can help flavor those products and help guide people into how to make them.

Where do I see growth in hydration and what sets a drink apart? I feel like hydration is really saturated. That could be a concern, right? Like, if you're in hydration, how do you differentiate yourself? I know some companies have leaned into going heavily salty, some have leaned into really simple ingredient decks. I feel like that's the direction that companies can go. Formulating for youth athletes would be a potential category that companies should consider. Like Gatorade was formulated for people are older, right, more adult athletes. Keeping in mind that there's propylene glycol and rosin, like, various things that I don't want my kid to drink on a regular basis. That's a potential direction that people will go. To me, simplifying. Your body doesn't need necessarily a ton of magnesium potassium. Really, it just needs salt paired with some kind of energy to stay hydrated. Right? Salt plus water. I've seen a rise in pickle shots, which is kind of interesting. I've done a little bit of work on a pickle shot. It was like vinegar, salt and dill flavor. It turned out really good. So it was like drinking a pickle.

What innovations are coming up in adaptogens and various botanicals? That's kind of the company that I came from. We did a lot of botanical type products. What people are into is an all-in-one beverage: easy to consume and has a lot of benefit. So some of the things that I've formulated in the past that kind of hit this target were a ginger-based product that had purees and lots of natural ingredients that have maybe throat-soothing characteristics or provide natural energy from regular ingredients. So I worked on a lot of things like that. But then I also have done things that were Women's Health. A product that I worked on that had hair growth stimulation, L-Theanine, magnesium, 5-MTHF. Like all these different botanical type ingredients. Bacterial spores, right, that are supposed to be for good gut health. An all in one inclusive supplement that can be taken easily. A lot of adaptogens now are also being used in energy drinks, which is interesting. Or they are being combined with protein powders. So we flavor a lot of protein powder type products. I see that taking on more where they start to incorporate more and more of these adaptogen or botanical type ingredients into products like that.

If I were going to give some tips to somebody who's looking to start up beverage company, I would probably be like, “You know, there are a lot of beverages out there. So what makes your beverage different for one, and then can that be produced?” Finding a niche that makes sense is really important. Is it possible to make something around that? Right now I'm looking at products that have kefir and kombucha, things that are typically fermented, but then carbonating it. So just looking at things that aren't typically carbonated and maybe, can that be carbonated? Right now there's a strange rise in craft nonalcoholic beer. Seems totally strange to me. But it's a niche, right? It's like a fermented flavor profile that's carbonated.

I'm just always interested in are some of the new an up and coming flavors. What's the market say that's of interest now, right? Like, I was really interested in why Prime drinks became successful all of a sudden, when there have been energy type beverages similar to that. A lot of the success of food products is marketing and marketing to the right people. Selling good product in a way that's clever that to me is interesting. I tend to walk through the grocery store and just look at labels. The consumer today is more into understanding what ingredients are doing in their product and why they're in there. That makes it harder for us to use tried and true ingredients that aren't harmful, but the regular consumer thinks that they know better. I want to develop great products too, that are safe and healthy. That can be a kind of a hard bridge to cross with people to help them understand, “Citric acid is safe or, this mushroom extract is a natural preservative, and it's fine, right? Like, don't worry about it.” Also mildly interested in how we're rethinking a lot of chemicals that are unsafe, trying to make them safer for human consumption. Artificial colors, for example, is a big hot topic right now. Trying to get rid of those dyes and things that cause hyperactivity in children, that we've known has done that for years. But the problem is, how do we replace those? What's the technology out there that needs to be utilized? Nice thing about those old ingredients is that they worked really well, but they had other negative effects that people don't like. And so how do I make something that's stable but also functions well? Here at Sensapure, just the development of our flavor systems that are derived from natural essences and oils and to make a really clean label, I love that. We're on the forefront of that kind of technology, and we should really go down that path. How do we make those flavors really pop and really taste intense, and do it in an inexpensive way? I think that'll be a direction that will be really lucrative.
Thank you so much for working with us. We love our customers and we love to work hands on new products with them.